Hate Fuck Follow-Up

[pantryslut]

0. Thank you, everyone, for your answers and insights.


1. I asked the question the way I did because, while I've encountered various definitions, and while it seems possible to me that a female-bodied person could, in theory, have consensual sex with someone they were sexually attracted to but personally loathed, and call that a "hate fuck," I have only ever heard the term used by male-bodied and -identified people, increasingly in the form of "I would like to hate-fuck [x]." To me, that sounds *just* like saying "I would like to fuck [x] whether she wants to or not," which sounds exactly like saying "I would like to rape [x]" to me. If you see what I mean. In other words, to me, it is beginning to sound like, at least sometimes, a rhetorical trick to get around using the R-word.

2. On the other hand, porn provides a very nice venue in which to witness events which are akin if not synonymous with hate-fucking. I remember one scene in a disc I was reviewing where the two participants get into an argument, and then proceed to have sex while still arguing. They finish the scene still angry at each other. I never understood why this was supposed to be a turn-on to watch. Also, since these participants were acting, I couldn't tell if it was genuine or feigned dislike fueling the scene. Either way, it made my skin crawl. P.S. There is also a whole porn series, very popular, called Grudgefuck. I haven't seen it. P.P.S. I guess I can see its dramatic potential in other contexts, too, but, I just, I dunno.

3. All of which makes me feel terribly pollyannaish sometimes. I cannot really imagine enjoying consensual sex with someone I dislike that much. I cannot imagine being even nominally sexually attracted to someone I really strongly disliked (although I have heard compelling stories from other people about simultaneous attraction/repulsion situations). And the thought of someone enacting such a thing upon me makes me literally nauseous. Which is weird, if you think about other fantasies I have had (and written about). And also I know that, as adrian_turtle said so aptly (and I am about to paraphrase so poorly), there are realms of fucked-up relationship interactions that do involve consent. But, dang, it's hard to even keep in my head why anyone would bother to have sex with someone they honestly felt those specific sorts of strong negative feelings for.

4. In my head, though, I have engaged in many fantasies that are akin to the "hate fuck" scenario. Except that they usually involve the word "no" and subsequent physical abuse (meted out by me, in case you were wondering the top v. bottom dynamic here) directed at other people's erogenous zones. Somehow, these scenarios are much more satisfying. Confidential P.S. to black_pearl_10: this is what I was referring to the other day when you were going to the shower and I said "it's more complicated than that."

5. Required disclaimer: YKIOK. Your fantasies doubly so.

Comments

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

I cannot imagine being even nominally sexually attracted to someone I really strongly disliked

The only way I can form even the slightest of connections to this concept is in the situation where someone whom I liked and was attracted to and had become close to turned out to be have been deceiving me at a number of levels* and to actually be someone I did not like at all; there appears for me to be an interval in there where the reaction to the betrayal takes a small but non-zero amount of time to percolate through and redirect the familiar physical attraction. Which is not by any means a comfortable time.

*Basically coming from a mindset of "be X until it attracts you a partner, but once you have a partner it's OK to be Y and they'll put up with it".

[genderfur.livejournal.com]

In other words, to me, it is beginning to sound like, at least sometimes, a rhetorical trick to get around using the R-word.

I totally get what you're saying (although it's not yet hitting me the same way).

An interesting extra factor is "for what values of rape"? Acquaintance rape and stranger rape have really different frameworks and probly different mindsets too. So is a g-f like any sort of rape, or only certain sorts?

[irontongue.livejournal.com]

An ex of mine once told me about a previous relationship in which there had been a lot of (verbal) fighting and "that increased the intensity of the sex." I read this as meaning that any intense emotion can contribute to good sex if that fits the chemistry between two people.

[manomano.livejournal.com]

(numbers mine, not in response to yours)

1) This was the first time I'd heard the term hate fuck and I have to say, I'm not a fan.

2) I'm with you. You know, when I was growing up, my mother would always say "love and hate are two sides of the same coin." Of course, my mother is mentally ill, but I've heard other people say that too. I've just honestly never experienced it.

3) I've seen variations on this theme all through fiction, particular in movie form. How many times have you seen two people arguing on TV and suddenly they're having sex? Most recently seen on L Word.

[cheekytubemouse.livejournal.com]

#2 reminds me of some of the bodice rippers I read as a very young teenager. Of course, the scenes were always fueled by suppressed passion between the two characters and they would ultimately profess love for each other. Because of that, I'm not sure if those scenes would qualify as hate fucks or not.

I never much cared for those plots, I did have a fondness for a similar type...

Woman is kidnapped by bad guys (my favorites were pirates), usually for ransom. Bad Guy in Charge takes a liking to the woman who, while a lady, is also a spitfire. BGiC protects his prisoner from the other bad guys but also inappropriately fondles and kisses her. He never forces her to have sex but, instead, is determined to make her willingly consent to his advances. Which, of course, she eventually does.

Actually, though I quit reading bodice rippers (or any type of romance novel) over 20 years ago, I still have a weakness for those types of storylines.

[innerdoggie.livejournal.com]

It seems like the "war of the sexes" type heterosexuals might only have a version of this kind of sex, and no other variety. Women who hate men, or men who hate women, but "can't live with them, and can't live without them."

Vide all those annoying acquaintances who send those stupid email jokes.