People think I'm crazy or worse, lying, when I tell them I have mild PTSD after working for kink.com for a year and a half. I saw shit go down there that I'm not proud to have been a part of.
I only ever had my toe in the water but overheard enough of this stuff go on (and then had plenty of it come into my office when I started seeing kinky clients) to make me utterly skeptical of the whole "we're immune to abuse and a model for vanilla people because we're so committed to safe/sane/consensual" line.
I don't know anyone who claims bdsm is *immune* to abuse. That's laughable. Kinky people grew up in the same sick culture as everyone else. I have seen the "model for vanillas" line, though. And while I do think vanillas could learn something from the kink world's model of explicit negotiation, the kinky world still has far to go in terms of better education and self-policing.
I've had people say exactly that in my presence. They were quite serious about it, and obviously there were some pretty troubling dynamics involved. I wouldn't say it's representative of all kinky folks, but I've run across it from more than one person.
I was just at a conference where a presenter on BDSM didn't quite invoke terms that were that black and white, but did basically say "if you have clients who are doing BDSM and you're worried about abuse, the best way to protect them is to get them connected to the larger BDSM community," which is true as a generality I'd say, but elides the fact that scenes can have their own sick little pockets that wall themselves off and create some pretty crazy norms.
Nobody claims BDSM is immune to abuse. The claim is that it's *not* abuse because it's consensual. That claim is also nonsense, but it's just a false binary, not an aspiration to inoculation.
It's unfathomable to me that someone would fear getting thrown out of a club for safewording or shouting at someone who penetrated them without permission. It just doesn't work that way out here, and I'm dismayed that it might work that way in SF. And no one's ever grabbed my hair or ass without permission in a Chicago club either. One guy didn't wait for permission to touch me sexually at a private play party, but he was vanilla and it was his first play party. He didn't get invited back and he got a lot of lecturing from the other guests.
Now, are there creeps? Yes. Is there boundary pushing? Yes. And we as a community need to do way, way better at educating newbies on how to be assertive bottoms and respectful tops. But this level of abuse she's talking about, and the community collusion in it...I honestly haven't seen it or experienced it in the 10 years I've been playing. There is one Dom in Chicago who's known to be a predator, but he's mostly shunned now and he had to start his own club because no one wanted him at theirs anymore. He's been banned from at least one major convention too.
Maybe Chicago is better than some places? I don't know.
I don't think you should confuse her fears with the reality on the ground (i.e. I can't imagine anyone actually getting thrown out for safewording, though we can discuss 'shouting' some other time as a possibility). Nonetheless, I don't want to dismiss her fears either.
I've seen it, and heard about it, and not just in SF. I've been at it more than 10 years, though. (Also I did have the opportunity to sit in on the message boards of ALT.com for a living.)
I'll agree with her -- and at the same time, say that you've got to take steps to protect yourself. Letting a guy in your house when you're not prepared to sleep with him or going someplace with a guy when you're dependent on him for transportation out is stupid. It sucks, but it's stupid. I had similar incidents in my life just in vanilla space -- in one case, a guy I met at a bookstore.
Yeah. I didn't know how to say it without victim-blaming, but I thought the same--who takes a ride home from a stranger at a munch? And once he didn't leave when she said, I'd have called 911 on his creepy ass.
There's a really good discussion going on between the author of this piece and a friend of mine, wicked_smile_4u or Sheryn B, who wrote a piece on bottoming and responsibility on Fet. I had a feeling this piece was inspired by that, and so it was. I don't recall if you're on fet, but here's the link: http://fetlife.com/users/16981/posts/671235 and the exchange is on page 3.
Well, my definition is "gave me a lot to think about, and I'm still thinking about it, (and plotting a post about it) and I want to be in a room having this discussion/argument/whatever with a bunch of these people." I don't always agree with Sheryn, in fact I disagreed with her in that post, but I respect where she's coming from.
It was the fact that Sheryn could simultaneously complain about being yelled at and type a lot of words in all caps that turned me off. Hard.
I think most of this boils down to, well, the obvious parallel to rape prevention tactics. The BDSM community is still stuck on the "don't walk alone, carry a whistle, watch out for predators and take care of yourself" paradigm, and I'd like to see us reframe it.
I have some mixed feelings about it - in part I want to say the idea that there is a "community" is not true - and even if there is a community it won't make things safe and at that age those same things happened outside of bdsm. I guess I feel a little defensive, and a little like, yes I went through some of those same things, but as I got older I was better and enforcing my boundaries. I don't know, I guess I feel like there are many subtle complicating factors.
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pantryslut
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....
Date: 2011-07-13 01:49 am (UTC)People think I'm crazy or worse, lying, when I tell them I have mild PTSD after working for kink.com for a year and a half. I saw shit go down there that I'm not proud to have been a part of.
Re: ....
Date: 2011-07-14 06:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 02:33 am (UTC)I only ever had my toe in the water but overheard enough of this stuff go on (and then had plenty of it come into my office when I started seeing kinky clients) to make me utterly skeptical of the whole "we're immune to abuse and a model for vanilla people because we're so committed to safe/sane/consensual" line.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 04:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 05:48 am (UTC)I was just at a conference where a presenter on BDSM didn't quite invoke terms that were that black and white, but did basically say "if you have clients who are doing BDSM and you're worried about abuse, the best way to protect them is to get them connected to the larger BDSM community," which is true as a generality I'd say, but elides the fact that scenes can have their own sick little pockets that wall themselves off and create some pretty crazy norms.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 04:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 05:42 am (UTC)The latter claim, of course, is much more slippery and difficult to interrogate, and the article you linked to did a fabulous job of it.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 04:31 am (UTC)Now, are there creeps? Yes. Is there boundary pushing? Yes. And we as a community need to do way, way better at educating newbies on how to be assertive bottoms and respectful tops. But this level of abuse she's talking about, and the community collusion in it...I honestly haven't seen it or experienced it in the 10 years I've been playing. There is one Dom in Chicago who's known to be a predator, but he's mostly shunned now and he had to start his own club because no one wanted him at theirs anymore. He's been banned from at least one major convention too.
Maybe Chicago is better than some places? I don't know.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 04:47 am (UTC)I've seen it, and heard about it, and not just in SF. I've been at it more than 10 years, though. (Also I did have the opportunity to sit in on the message boards of ALT.com for a living.)
no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 11:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 01:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 02:47 pm (UTC)Someone who's young and naive and bought the party line.
or...
Date: 2011-07-14 05:21 am (UTC)-Kitty Stryker
Re: or...
Date: 2011-07-14 06:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 02:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 04:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 04:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 06:47 pm (UTC)I think most of this boils down to, well, the obvious parallel to rape prevention tactics. The BDSM community is still stuck on the "don't walk alone, carry a whistle, watch out for predators and take care of yourself" paradigm, and I'd like to see us reframe it.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-13 11:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-07-14 05:32 am (UTC)